What to do if deciding to do neurosurgery late in M3 yr? I was originally thinking of applying to a noncompetitive specialty, and felt my application was good for that one. But late during my M3 yr I realized neurosurg is the only specialty for me, and I sincerely cannot imagine anything else! I have been scrubbing into neurosurg cases in my free time and following neurosurg pts courses when i can. Unfortunately I do not have the research to back it up. My step 1 score is national average and my grades are not exceptional (mostly pass, honors in half of clinicals). My school does not have a neurosurg program so I was never exposed to it and it did not cross my mind as an option. I also do not have access to mentors. Dont know if it matters, I am a female applicant. I know I am very behind on pursuing this career path. From these threads, it seems most people wanted to pursue neurosurgery from the womb!
I am feeling very behind with all of this, yet determined to do what it takes!
I am scheduled for 3 neurosurg rotations to improve my exposure and prove my dedication in my M4 year.
 Would love some helpful feedback and suggestions I can take moving forward. Anecdotal evidence of success is very welcome!
I wish I could provide constructive advice and some encouragement but in all honesty it's not looking good. The criteria for matching into neurosurgery are pretty much: Step I score, research, letters of recommendation (from home chairman/mentors/aways), away rotation performance, and clinical grades/AOA. In your case, your step 1 is ~20 points below the mean for neurosurgery, you have no research, no chairman/home program, no mentors to make phone calls, and dead average grades. There were tons of kids this year with better applications who unfortunately didn't match. I think your best bet to match would be at a minimum to take a year off and gain some research experience/mentorship to beef up your app.
Your step 1 is national average? Like 228/229?
A score like that can still work if you have great research and/or great letters. But it seems like you've done no research, which it's pretty much too late to get anything substantial out by September, and you have no home program, which is where your best letter(s) should come from. You're in a very tough spot.
This really doesn't have anything to do with deciding late or knowing you want to do it "from the womb," people decide mid-late 3rd year and match all the time. I'm not going to lie, it's going to be a huge uphill battle for you. The step score alone will screen you out of most programs. Your only chance in my opinion is to take a year off, work your ass off to get a shit load of research, then absolutely kill your aways. Even then it's still pretty unlikely, but nothing's impossible.
Good luck
To be brutally honest, if you did have access to a mentor i'm pretty sure they'd tell you to consider another field.
Sometimes determination and willpower aren't enough.
You could still get into neurointerventional radiology from neurology or rads, have you looked into that?
If OP is that committed, and assuming she does not right away, would doing well during prelim year/gen surg intern year or one of those pre-residency fellowships help? Or is that not enough to overcome the lower Step 1?
I'm no expert, but I would imagine strong clinical performance during an intern year/pre-residency fellowship would hold a lot of weight since the program would know what they are getting and they may overlook the board score. OP would have to sacrifice a few years potentially though.
(04-08-2018, 09:07 PM)Guest Wrote: If OP is that committed, and assuming she does not right away, would doing well during prelim year/gen surg intern year or one of those pre-residency fellowships help? Or is that not enough to overcome the lower Step 1?
I'm no expert, but I would imagine strong clinical performance during an intern year/pre-residency fellowship would hold a lot of weight since the program would know what they are getting and they may overlook the board score. OP would have to sacrifice a few years potentially though.
does not match* right away
(04-08-2018, 07:59 PM)Guest Wrote: What to do if deciding to do neurosurgery late in M3 yr? I was originally thinking of applying to a noncompetitive specialty, and felt my application was good for that one. But late during my M3 yr I realized neurosurg is the only specialty for me, and I sincerely cannot imagine anything else! I have been scrubbing into neurosurg cases in my free time and following neurosurg pts courses when i can. Unfortunately I do not have the research to back it up. My step 1 score is national average and my grades are not exceptional (mostly pass, honors in half of clinicals). My school does not have a neurosurg program so I was never exposed to it and it did not cross my mind as an option. I also do not have access to mentors. Dont know if it matters, I am a female applicant. I know I am very behind on pursuing this career path. From these threads, it seems most people wanted to pursue neurosurgery from the womb!
I am feeling very behind with all of this, yet determined to do what it takes!
I am scheduled for 3 neurosurg rotations to improve my exposure and prove my dedication in my M4 year.
Would love some helpful feedback and suggestions I can take moving forward. Anecdotal evidence of success is very welcome!
Being a female applicant will help. Our program (a strong program in the NE) is always looking to diversify our resident pool and we typically consider female applicants even if their scores are in the 220-230s
(04-08-2018, 10:20 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-08-2018, 07:59 PM)Guest Wrote: What to do if deciding to do neurosurgery late in M3 yr? I was originally thinking of applying to a noncompetitive specialty, and felt my application was good for that one. But late during my M3 yr I realized neurosurg is the only specialty for me, and I sincerely cannot imagine anything else! I have been scrubbing into neurosurg cases in my free time and following neurosurg pts courses when i can. Unfortunately I do not have the research to back it up. My step 1 score is national average and my grades are not exceptional (mostly pass, honors in half of clinicals). My school does not have a neurosurg program so I was never exposed to it and it did not cross my mind as an option. I also do not have access to mentors. Dont know if it matters, I am a female applicant. I know I am very behind on pursuing this career path. From these threads, it seems most people wanted to pursue neurosurgery from the womb!
I am feeling very behind with all of this, yet determined to do what it takes!
I am scheduled for 3 neurosurg rotations to improve my exposure and prove my dedication in my M4 year.
Would love some helpful feedback and suggestions I can take moving forward. Anecdotal evidence of success is very welcome!
Being a female applicant will help. Our program (a strong program in the NE) is always looking to diversify our resident pool and we typically consider female applicants even if their scores are in the 220-230s
Slightly off topic but I was asked by a URM M2 how diversity was in neurosurgery and I honestly didnt know how to answer them. How are things looking these days?
(04-08-2018, 10:32 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-08-2018, 10:20 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-08-2018, 07:59 PM)Guest Wrote: What to do if deciding to do neurosurgery late in M3 yr? I was originally thinking of applying to a noncompetitive specialty, and felt my application was good for that one. But late during my M3 yr I realized neurosurg is the only specialty for me, and I sincerely cannot imagine anything else! I have been scrubbing into neurosurg cases in my free time and following neurosurg pts courses when i can. Unfortunately I do not have the research to back it up. My step 1 score is national average and my grades are not exceptional (mostly pass, honors in half of clinicals). My school does not have a neurosurg program so I was never exposed to it and it did not cross my mind as an option. I also do not have access to mentors. Dont know if it matters, I am a female applicant. I know I am very behind on pursuing this career path. From these threads, it seems most people wanted to pursue neurosurgery from the womb!
I am feeling very behind with all of this, yet determined to do what it takes!
I am scheduled for 3 neurosurg rotations to improve my exposure and prove my dedication in my M4 year.
Would love some helpful feedback and suggestions I can take moving forward. Anecdotal evidence of success is very welcome!
Being a female applicant will help. Our program (a strong program in the NE) is always looking to diversify our resident pool and we typically consider female applicants even if their scores are in the 220-230s
Slightly off topic but I was asked by a URM M2 how diversity was in neurosurgery and I honestly didnt know how to answer them. How are things looking these days?
Do you mean they're asking if affirmative action applies in neurosurgery? If they actually care about the diversity in programs, they almost always have names and pictures of residents on their website...
(04-08-2018, 10:32 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-08-2018, 10:20 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-08-2018, 07:59 PM)Guest Wrote: What to do if deciding to do neurosurgery late in M3 yr? I was originally thinking of applying to a noncompetitive specialty, and felt my application was good for that one. But late during my M3 yr I realized neurosurg is the only specialty for me, and I sincerely cannot imagine anything else! I have been scrubbing into neurosurg cases in my free time and following neurosurg pts courses when i can. Unfortunately I do not have the research to back it up. My step 1 score is national average and my grades are not exceptional (mostly pass, honors in half of clinicals). My school does not have a neurosurg program so I was never exposed to it and it did not cross my mind as an option. I also do not have access to mentors. Dont know if it matters, I am a female applicant. I know I am very behind on pursuing this career path. From these threads, it seems most people wanted to pursue neurosurgery from the womb!
I am feeling very behind with all of this, yet determined to do what it takes!
I am scheduled for 3 neurosurg rotations to improve my exposure and prove my dedication in my M4 year.
Would love some helpful feedback and suggestions I can take moving forward. Anecdotal evidence of success is very welcome!
Being a female applicant will help. Our program (a strong program in the NE) is always looking to diversify our resident pool and we typically consider female applicants even if their scores are in the 220-230s
Slightly off topic but I was asked by a URM M2 how diversity was in neurosurgery and I honestly didnt know how to answer them. How are things looking these days?
The neurosurgery match is unforgiving but not as bad as comparable specialties such as ortho or ENT. With that being said, most PDs aren't exactly holistic and won't give out interviews to applicants with major blemishes i.e. three strikes and you're out.
Deciding late with sub-par grades is a major disadvantage. Having a sub 230 is a major disadvantage. Having no neurosurgery publications is a major disadvantage. If you had a home program matching there could be feasible even with a below average application. The only people that I knew who matched deciding late with nothing on their CV came from great home programs with faculty that were revered and well-connected (think Michigan, Columbia, UVA).
Do yourself a favor and save yourself some heartache and money this upcoming cycle. Take a year off to do research at some clinical research factory like UVA or Pitt. Get your name on 6-7 papers, make friends with the chairman and PD so either (or both of them) can go to bat for you if you need an away rotation or an interview at a certain program.
being female helps. unfortunately, although urms are urm in nsg, pds don't select for urm races when interviewing etc.
(04-09-2018, 12:14 AM)Guest Wrote: being female helps. unfortunately, although urms are urm in nsg, pds don't select for urm races when interviewing etc.
I'll let her know, thanks!
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